I thought I'd start a thread because the last two weeks have been strangely consistent—and I'd like to compare notes before I change my whole commute.

At the downtown 6 platform at 77th St between roughly 7:15 and 8:00 p.m., the countdown clock has been showing a train 4-5 minutes out on the local track. The platform fills up: everyone comes down from the mezzanine because the screen says 2, then 1, then 'arriving.' The train pulls in, empties, and the doors either don't open or open and close twice. The sign inside says 'Not in Service,' but the board said Arriving. It sits for about three minutes, the conductor walks the platform, then it leaves. The clock then resets to 9 or 10 minutes for the next train, which is the actual one that boards passengers.

I've seen this happen three times this week: Monday around 7:25, Tuesday around 7:40, and Thursday around 7:35. I originally assumed it was a train being taken out of service or a gap train, but it's too regular. My question: is 77th St being used as a crew relief point? I thought crew reliefs happened at terminals or at certain mid-line spots with redundant platforms. Also, is the countdown clock counting the train because the track circuit sees it as a 'train' even when it's not in revenue service? If so, that explains why the board is so reliable about lying to us. Not the worst delay in the system, but it's a weird one because you can watch people sprint down the stairs to catch a train that was never going to take them.

Ooh, I have definitely noticed this kind of phantom arrival on the Lexington local! Not at 77th specifically, but at 86th. Have you tried timing whether the first train always comes from the uptown side and crosses over? Because I think what you're seeing is a lay-up train that deadheads back downtown after running express in the Bronx or a crew change at the 77th St pocket track north of the station. The track circuit definitely doesn't know if a train is in service—if the wheels are there, it shows a train. That's why the board can say 'arriving' while the doors stay closed: it's not a passenger train, but it's still a train.

This has the same vibe as Those watermelon bins at the 9th St corner market—is the crosswalk block just accepted now? 'Those watermelon bins at the 9th St corner market—is the crosswalk block just accepted now?'—the system tells you one thing, but the actual city is running on a different set of rules. Have you tried writing down the run number when the ghost train sits there? If it's a crew relief, the run number usually changes.

Wait, so the countdown clock doesn't actually know which train is in service? I just moved here a few months ago and kept missing the 6 at 77th because I'd see "arriving" and not hurry, then it was an empty train. I thought I was doing something wrong or standing at the wrong end of the platform. Is this also why the board will go from 3 minutes to 'delay' with no explanation? Thanks for explaining the track circuit thing—do all lines work that way?

To newyork_newbie_n: yes, the countdown clocks mostly run on track circuit occupancy; they don't see the service status. When a train enters the block, the board says it's approaching. It doesn't matter if it's an out-of-service train, a work train, or a train that's being deadheaded to a yard. The 6 is especially prone to this because there are pocket tracks and a lot of mid-line relays. At 77th, the downtown local often sees a train that has been turned around after a short-turn at Parkchester or 138th? Actually those are on the same line but I'm not sure 77th gets the relay. GrandArmyGrrl might be right about lay-ups.

The visual tell is the interior side signs: if the train passes and all the side signs say 'Not in Service,' that's a deadhead. A real passenger train normally has the route up. But on the 6, some older cars have broken side signs, so it's not foolproof. My rule now is: if a local arrives at 77th with doors that stay closed for more than 20 seconds during that 7 p.m. window, don't wait for it to open—just stand back and wait for the next one. The board will reset, but the next train is usually closer than the board suggests. The next train usually appears within 6-8 minutes of the ghost, so it's not a massive delay, but if you're transferring at 59th to the R, you'll miss the connection.

YES! The side signs are the giveaway! And if you see a crew member walking the platform with the little red light wand, it's almost certainly a crew relief or a lay-up—they're not doing that for a revenue train. I once saw a ghost train at 77th sit for a full six minutes while the board behind us said '3 min' for the next train. The crowd was so mad, people started banging on the doors. The conductor finally came on the PA and said 'this train will not carry passengers.' Then everyone acting surprised was extra funny. Have you tried the exit stairs at the uptown end? You can sometimes see the pocket track signals before the train pulls in.

Eh, it's not just the 6. The A at 190th does the same with work trains after track work. Board says 4, then a big yellow light comes down the middle and the train goes by doing 10 mph. People on the platform flip out, but if you see flatcars or a train with every light out inside, don't expect a seat. OP, you're better off leaving the station when the ghost shows up and grabbing the 77th Street crosstown bus if you're going west. But if you need east, just wait. It's annoying but not as bad as standing at 59th for 25 minutes with the board saying '3' the whole time.

Does anyone else remember when 77th had an entrance on the north side? Maybe the pocket track had an open platform and they used it more. The countdown clocks made this worse because now we trust a screen over our own eyes. I've seen the same on the E at Court Square—an in-service train arrives, but not the one the board was counting. It'll say 'entering Court Sq' and then the next train is two behind it. I just wait for the actual train door to open. If it stays closed, it's not your train.

To the person who said the track circuit doesn't know service status: exactly. It's a block occupancy system. The old countdown clocks on the IRT especially use fixed block circuits, not live train tracking. So when a garbage train sits on the local, the board thinks it's a revenue 6. At 77th, that pocket track is basically uncovered from the platform, so you see the headlights first. Pro tip: if the headlights come around the curve very slowly and then the train stops with the second door from the front nearest the pillar, don't bother standing near the yellow line. It's not opening soon.

Thanks everyone—this makes so much sense. I tried the headlight thing last night and waited for a train that came around the curve fast with interior lights on, and the doors opened right away. The ghost train came first, and I stayed on the bench. I still don't know where the 'arriving' message gets its data, but I feel less like I'm losing my mind. Does the 6 have cameras that could show platform crowding to the dispatcher? Because it seems like they'd want to adjust if a hundred people just watched a train not take them.

Newyork_newbie_n: good! The fast train with the interior lights on and the route sign lit is usually the real one. The cameras question is a good one, but I wouldn't hang my hat on real-time adjustment. The dispatcher's board also sees the same block occupied; they don't necessarily see the platform count. And to CobbleHill_C: yes, there used to be a station house on the north side, but I think it closed long before countdown clocks. At this point I've accepted that the evening ghost train at 77th is probably a yard movement or crew exchange. It's not going to show up on the board as a non-passenger train unless the system upgrades to true train tracking, which the 6 is still not fully equipped for. I'll update if I catch a run number next week.

One more thing: if you see the train arrive with the lights off and the stop lights red, it's a work train. The track circuit counts it as a train, but the board may show it as the next local. The platform sign may not flash 'not in service' because the board is separate from the train's sign system. So trust the doors and the side signs more than the screen.